In this episode of the Refurb and Retrofit podcast, Matt Milloy interviews Leo Raymon founder of Eden Labs, who discusses the intersection of sustainability and marketing. They explore the challenges of marketing retrofit solutions, the importance of community engagement, and the emotional drivers that can motivate consumers to adopt sustainable practices. Leo emphasizes the need for a national conversation about sustainability and the role of collaboration among various stakeholders to create demand for eco-friendly solutions. The conversation also touches on overcoming negative perceptions and the importance of storytelling in promoting sustainability. Leo was and is one of those people who is a modern Mad Men. But the good one.