In this episode of Being in the Arena, Zach Arend delves into the common leadership dilemma of trying to change team members' behaviors. Drawing from a real-life scenario, Zach highlights the misconception of attempting to control others' actions and emphasizes the importance of personal responsibility in leadership. He challenges leaders to shift their mindset from trying to "get" people to change to taking ownership of their role in the situation. With practical insights and a candid discussion, Zach explores the necessity of clear communication and accountability in transforming team dynamics. Tune in for a thought-provoking episode on leadership and team management.

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TRANSCRIPT BELOW:

 We fall into this trap of trying to get people to do something. The bottom line is, the truth is you can't get people to do anything. 

Zach Arend: Welcome to being in the arena. This is a podcast for entrepreneurial leaders who really want to look at. Why things are the way they are for them in their businesses, on their teams in their lives so that they can take some responsibility of it and start to create more of what they want. And so today I wanted to share a little story because I was in the room

after one of my events, everybody had cleared out and I was starting to pack things up. Right. And this woman walks in and she's kinda, you know, carrying her notebook. She like, Hey, I have a question. And you know, of course I'm like, yeah, And she goes on to tell me how she has these two people on her team. 

She's got a team about 12 to 14 people. She's got these two individuals that they're just so negative, they just have these attitudes and they just bring the overall energy down. And she's just going on and on and telling me "I've tried, I've tried to talk to them about it. They just won't change. And I just feel stuck and I don't know what to do. 

How can I get them to, to get better? How can I get them to improve?" 

And so that question is a question actually throughout the day in this event I was doing, that's what I was hearing. Different versions of "how can I get them to... how can I," you know, "how can I, in some way, control their behavior or get their behavior to change?" And this is an interesting thing because this woman, as she was sharing, like she did feel stuck. And the situation as she was looking at it. It made sense that she felt stuck because she had tried to get them to change and yet they won't change. 

And throughout the workshop I was doing with this group, we really talked about responsibility. And then we came right back to the responsibility that she has, and these other two individuals have. And I made it very clear to her that right now, she's the one with the problem. They don't have a problem. 

They don't have a problem until she makes it their problem. Right now she's being responsible for their behavior. "How can I get them to change as a leader? How can I get them to do what I need them to do?" And that's the mistake we fall into. 

We fall into this trap of trying to get people to do something. The bottom line is, the truth is you can't get people to do anything. 

So stop trying to do that. But that's what we do as leaders. And this is what this woman was really trying to do. And she'd been trying, and she was at the end of the rope. She felt stuck. It wasn't working. And my whole point to her was like, "You can't be responsible in that way for other people. You have to be responsible." You have to look inwardly and say, "how might I be contributing to this situation?" And this is what I told her. 

I said, "look, you are allowing this behavior. You are the one allowing this behavior, this ain't on them. It's on you." Right. And that, that kind of made it real. So it's on you. She's like, "well, what do you mean?" she's like, "I've tried" and I'm like, "I know, but you continue to allow it."

" Well, I mean, what am I supposed to do?"

Zach Arend: Right. And this was part of what we were discussing throughout the day together. This idea of "you have to show up to those two individuals and really point out to them that this behavior is not working for me. 

And if it continues, you can't be on the team anymore." Like very clear. And I asked her like, if you were to say something like that, "Hey, this isn't working for me. This behavior isn't working for us and this team. And I needed to stop now. Or we're going to have to talk about you no longer being on this team. Because it isn't working. This can't continue." 

And, you know, I asked her "have you communicated?" "Well, no, I haven't said that exactly. I mean, I've kind of told them that... I've kind of said that," you know, and that's what I always hear is " well, I kind of said that." Like did you kind of say that, or did you say that? And what's usually getting said is, "Hey guys, you know, can you try to be a little more positive? 

You know, you kind of bring the energy..." you know? But nothing changes. And I asked this woman "imagine if you did say that." 

Imagine you literally said "this isn't working for me anymore. This isn't working for us anymore. And the behavior it has to change, or this ain't gonna work." And right away, she's like, "well then what?" I'm like, "what do you mean then what?" "Well, what if they don't change?" And I kind of looked at her and smiled, well, then you have to, you have to let them go. 

Like it's not working. You follow through." "Well, I can't do that because you don't understand, I can't find good people like it's impossible to find good people." 

You know, and, and I'm like, "oh, there it is." This is what this is really about. What makes it hard for you and me at times? I've been there. I've been in the seat where "oh, shoot. I kind of need this person. Somebody is better than nobody. And it's hard to find people, so somebody is better than nobody."

And so we don't fully lead them. We don't fully hold them accountable. We don't fully own that we are contributing to this. And so we kind of passively mention things hoping they change. But we're not open to the possibility that they just might not be a fit for this team and they might have to go. And this is where the conversation really started to shift. Because I was about ready to get enrolled in this woman's story about "can't find people." Cause then it's " like, well, shoot, if you can't find people. 

Yeah. God, now I'm stuck. I don't know what you do if you can't find people and I know you can't make people change, so, wow." But here's the thing. I stopped myself. I'm like, "can you absolutely know that that's true, that you can't find good people?" And she went on to argue " yes, you cannot find... there is just not, you don't understand Zach, you don't understand. There are not people out there that want this role." And I'm just like, "okay, well, I'm not in a position to argue and I'm not so sure this is going to serve either one of us." And so I just told her, I said, "look, I don't know if it's true or not. 

And I honestly, I'm not so sure you can know it's absolutely true that you can't find somebody else. But let's set that aside because I'm not as concerned with what's true. Because, honestly, I don't know if we really know what's true. I'm more interested in what's useful. What is useful? And what is the thought of "I can't find good people." What is the usefulness of believing that? 'Cause right now it is leading to you feeling stuck and powerless to change and have the culture and the team that you ultimately want. And she could see my point. Right. It's not useful. And I said, "what if you were just to believe that there is somebody out there that would be an amazing fit for you? What if you were just to believe that that's true?" "Well then. Then I would, you know, then it'd be kind of a no-brainer. 

 I would be more Frank with these two team members and I'd tell them that either they needed to change or they're not on the team." 

And I said, "that's extremely useful. Because what happens when you do that?" That's if they're actually going to change. If you actually want to change somebody's behavior, 

you have to be willing to go there because people will not change unless they are called to a choice. As soon as you put that responsibility on them that the behavior needs to stop and change or it ain't going to work, you no longer have the problem. 

They have the problem and they have to make a choice. And when people are in a position where they must make a choice they often choose what's in their best interest.

 And. 

That is oftentimes what's in your best interest. Like, if you really want the situation to change, you have to be willing to believe that there's other people out there that can fill the seat. And that's actually the doorway to have everything you want. " Can you see the usefulness in that?" I asked her. She's like, "well, kinda. But, you know, you don't understand. 

It's hard to find good people's accurate. There's just not out there." And then it's that fear. It's that fear that prevents us from having the tough conversations because they might leave. Or I might be the one having to do it all. And you don't understand I'm already overwhelmed. I can't do their job too. And it's understandable that that's where we go. But from my perspective, and I'm asking for some blind faith here. I've seen this enough times. 

I know where it leads. I have heard this from countless leaders that I'm coaching and working with. "I don't know if I can find somebody to replace them. I don't know if there's somebody out there. And so I'm reluctant to have the conversations. Or we put off firing somebody and letting them go because of the fear of not finding a replacement and already I'm busy. And I can't take on more." 

It's so predictable. When the leader actually goes through with it, that person exits, and the new person comes in, they always tell me, "Zach, I wish I would've done this sooner." It's like night and day difference. And sometimes they're saying that as soon as the person leaves and they haven't even replaced them. They're like, "you know what? They've left and I haven't even noticed it. In fact, things are even better. The team's working better together. You know, and I'm actually contemplating if I even really need to replace them. Cause we're humming along." The moral of the story is you can't know. You just have to trust your instinct that this isn't working. And you need to stand for, "I'm going to be a leader and I'm going to demand that this works for me and the team."

Like it has to, because if you don't, if you're not a stand for that. You're not only hurting yourself, you're hurting the entire team. And I would make the case you're even hurting that individual where you're allowing that behavior. Because the other side of the coin is nine times out of 10 I actually see that individual change their behavior. The moment, they feel the weight of responsibility to choose either you need to change your behavior or you don't have a job. 

It's interesting because that's when people tend to change. 

This trap of "I can't find good people." What is that costing you? And I don't care if it's true or not. Like we could argue about that. And for sure, I'm sure there might be some truth to that, but I'm not interested in what's true. I'm interested in what's useful. What changes about you when you start to believe that there's a multitude of great people out there? I think it gives you a lot of freedom. Freedom to lead. Freedom to hold the bar high and create a standard on your team. 

That creates an amazing and extraordinary culture where great work is being done together with people that enjoy working together. You have to look closer at, at these beliefs. And really, it's not a question of whether or not they're true. 

It's "are they useful?" How useful is the, "I can't find good people" story. Because if it's leaving you feeling stuck, then why have it? So that's, that's what I wanted to share with you. This is a short episode. I just wanted you to see. What are some stories you're telling yourself that really aren't that useful that are actually preventing you from leading in doing what you know to do? Thanks for listening, and we'll see you in the next episode.