In this heartfelt episode of Being in the Arena, Zach Arend sits down with special guest Deanna Simonson, a mom of 10 who brings a unique perspective on parenting and mental health. Their conversation dives deep into the challenges of raising kids in today's world, touching on everything from setting boundaries to nurturing meaningful connections. Through personal stories and practical advice, Zach and Deanna explore how parenting isn't just about rules—it's about listening, validating feelings, and showing love. Their candid exchange offers not only insights into parenting but also valuable lessons in leadership and relationships. Tune in for a dose of real talk and genuine wisdom that speaks to the heart of what it means to raise resilient, happy kids.

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TRANSCRIPT BELOW:

So we have to be really careful, even with our kids, how we're making them feel heard. Like, are we hearing them and letting that be okay?

Zach Arend: Welcome to Being in the Arena. Today's episode, I'm doing something I haven't done for a while. I'm bringing a guest on, Deanna Simonson. She was a fellow TEDx speaker at Youngstown, and I got to know her and her husband the months leading up to the event, and in fact, I've known them for about a year now, and Deanna is a very special individual, and she's a mom of 10 kids.

She has a powerful perspective on parents and our roles in cultivating mental health within our kids. And today I didn't see, I told her that it was going to be somewhat of a selfish conversation because I'm a dad of three daughters and I had some questions for her and it kind of turned into a little mini coaching session where I got pretty vulnerable with some real challenges I'm, you know, having and how I'm working through it and how she's helped me work through it.

And. I think you're going to enjoy this episode. I really do. Stay in it, listen to it because it really picks up towards the middle. We get into some pretty real world situations and yeah, I think you're going to find it helpful. And you know, whether you're a parent or not, like I realized this isn't a pairing parenting podcast, but in many ways, parenting is leadership. Now, I think when we're working with adults, I don't think we need to be a parent anymore. We can be more and more of a leader and less and less of a parent. But we really talk about what people really need from us as leaders, as parents. So, let's get into the episode.

All right. I'm sitting here with Deanna Simonson and she's a fellow TEDxer with me. We both gave our TEDx talks in Youngstown, Ohio just several weeks ago. And I especially invited her on the show because her talk resonated with me so much. I have, I'm a dad of three daughters and Deanna's message is one of "how do we impact and prevent this growing statistic of teen suicide?"

More specifically, "what role do we play as parents in, in protecting our kids? And how do we do that effectively?" And I wanted to bring her onto the show because like this, I'm interested in this topic and I want to pick her brain selfishly, I just want to learn from her. And also what I'm seeing in the world today is, how we show up as parents is directly reflected to how we show up as leaders in our organizations. There's this correlation and it's really interesting, like where we're getting it wrong in our companies, and a lot of what I teach, is the same areas we're getting it wrong at home. And so I want you to listen to it through that lens.

Like, how might this apply to, I don't care if you have kids or not, like, how does this apply to my interactions with people? How am I treating them? How am I showing up for them? And is it what they really truly need? So, all right, Deanna. I would love... welcome to the show, by the way. Thanks for coming on. Yeah, let's start. Can you just share a little of your story and kind of help us know where you're coming from on this topic? 

Deanna Simonson: Absolutely. So, I'm a mom to 10 kids. There's Kaden, Austin, Vaughn, Bretta, Korra, Spencer, Asher, Sawyer, Grace, and Vance. We actually have number 11 coming in July.

 So, when Vaughn, my 12 year old, was, had his friend named Alex, and they were best friends, they hung out all the time together, and one day, I noticed he hadn't asked to do anything with him for a while.

Deanna Simonson: When I asked him, he said, "I don't know what happened. I tried calling him and he just says he can't do anything." And then he finds out, I think it was like a week or two later that he actually went to his other friend's house instead. And it just crushed me because I could see how it made him feel. And I'm, but I'm thinking, I'm like, he was ghosted by his best friend.

And then a few weeks later, I was in the kitchen making dinner and his older brother comes in. He's like, "mom, you better go downstairs. Like Vaughn's not doing well." So I head downstairs, Vaughn's sitting there with his head in his hands. He's like, "mom, it hurts so bad. I just want to die." And it's just like killed me inside, but I knew what he needed for me was for me to step up and be his mom.

I knew he wasn't going to try to kill himself. I knew he wasn't suicidal. He just needed that support and for me to help reframe that situation so he could see it wasn't the end of his world. And that's what's happening in our world is a lot of parents aren't seeing it as it is, they're seeing it worse than it is.

They think something's wrong with their child that, "Oh, I better bring them to the doctor and put them on medication." Like, I don't want, and obviously that was the first time I had heard that from him. There are situations where parents, you know, kids are out. I worked with those kids in the hospital. You know, I worked with the parents and suicidal kids in the hospital.

I know what that is like. I have two life coaching certificates. I love learning and applying this, you know, to my life and others. But these kids, one point I just want to really emphasize is that for you and me and our kids, like, they just want to feel seen, heard and loved. They don't want to be brought to the doctor. They don't want to be put on a medication to think that something's wrong with them. They just want to be heard. And so many times they don't know how to express these big feelings that they're having.

And they want you to listen and not make them feel like something's wrong with them. Like I remember being a teenager and I'd go to my mom and dad with something and they'd freak out or they'd ground me. And I remember like it hurt so bad because I just wanted them to listen to me and to like help me validate my feelings that nothing's wrong with me, but then help me see that there's more to life.

And it's constantly, even with other kids that we have, you see them working through friendships. And 

if we don't matter as parents more than their peers, then that's when we run into situations because their peers matter more and the peers are the ones that are coming at them or deserting them and they have no adult to go to.

That's when this, these anxieties and these feelings of unworthiness come up for these kids. 

And that's when they're wanting take their own life.

Zach Arend: For me, when I heard your message and I hear it again, it just... like I was telling you before we push record, when I hear that story, I thought of my daughter and we moved recently and with her old friends back and forth. And of course, mom and I, we pay attention because she's young, you know, and we were reading and, you know, come to find out Claire's been kind of in a bad mood and, you know, just not herself.

And we noticed that there was a birthday party happening and she never got an invitation from what she thought was her best friend, you know, and there's just so many emotions right now. And it's normal for my wife and I had to be really concerned, like, is something... What's wrong? Like I, we've had, we're sitting in the kitchen.

It's like, "what's wrong?" You know, "what do we need to do?" And what do we need to do? Yeah. Not like what, like that, like if we're in that situation, cause I think. It's almost every week there's something, it's like, "Oh, it's, how serious is this?" Gosh, I don't, you know, it's just, there's so much complexities going on and things that you hear about and all happening really fast. For us, anyway. What, do we do with all that as a parent? Yeah.

Deanna Simonson: I think the first thing is to listen to them. Right? And let them verbalize their emotions. How it's, it stinks, it sucks. Whatever, you know, verbiage or, you know, whatever they need to do to get that feeling out. Let that be okay. Like, don't try to downgrade their feelings. And I think that so many times we as parents, when our kids come, we're like, "Oh, come on, it's not that bad."

Or, you know, like those whole feelings thing is one thing I noticed that parents get really stuck on because we didn't have, or we haven't had the same experience as a kid, or maybe we did, but we dealt with it differently because like, I know in my family, if you were crying, it was, I'll give you something to cry about if you don't stop.

You know what I mean? So we have to be really careful, even with our kids, how we're making them feel heard. Like, are we hearing them and letting that be okay? Or are we hearing them and making it not 

Zach Arend: Yeah. And I guess I've been really digging into this topic. The more like, you know, growing up, it would be " Knock it off" or "you're fine" or "it'll be fine." You know, it was just " rub some dirt on it," you know, and not to sound old fashioned. Cause I, I know that, and I'm not saying like, "well, that's how you handle it." So like, that's maybe one extreme, like just this cold, like "stop crying. Clean yourself up," you know? And then the other side though is this like, " let's explore how you're feeling and why you're feeling that." And it's just like, and then it turns into like a therapy session. Like, it's like, and it's, I don't know I am sensing my gut, my instinct's telling me there's something in the middle that we need find.

And I think we've actually. Swung the other direction too much and we've lost our authority as parents in our kids' lives because we want them to like us. I'm speaking for myself. So I want you to I want to hear your thoughts on that because I've...

Deanna Simonson: Yeah. No, I, yeah. The second part of that, I guess, would be is, first, let them verbalize it, right? And like we always say, like, "nothing's wrong with feelings until you stay there too long." And so it's good to verbalize. It's good to get it out, but let's not wallow in that, right? 

Then the next step is what can we do to help them see that it was more about the other person than it was about them? Like "were you being a good friend? Were you reaching out?" Maybe she didn't know. Like I like to say in our family, give the other person grace. You know what I mean? Cause we don't know.

Maybe she didn't like, it's been so long they haven't communicated, she just forgot. Maybe she wasn't trying to be rude and mean and hurtful. Because I always say, if we can give somebody grace, find that grace, it's easier to forgive them and move on and not take it so personally. But then the flip side of the coin, if that person is really turned into this awful person and they don't want a relationship like with Vaughn.

Like I told him, you know, it's more about them than it is about you, but he still needed to process those feelings. Right? And so like when he had those feelings come up, even though we had that conversation a few weeks earlier, I still didn't make it not okay. Like we had said, you know, cause we read books and we talk about, okay, let's connect with the friends that you do have.

Right? Or that are still, you know, wanting to be friends with you and like, let's nurture those relationships because friendships come and go like, and I share often about when I was growing up and even as an adult, right? Like people I was friends with 20 years ago. I'm maybe not so anymore. Maybe like my, I have friends that come and go, but it's not about necessarily always us being a bad person

or the other person being a bad person, but 

we grow in different ways. So it's all of these conversations, right? And opening it up and providing it as a teaching opportunity, 

you know, and for each of my kids. But I do like to talk first about like giving the other person grace and what we can do better. So how can we be a better friend so that maybe she wouldn't have forgotten about me or not invited me, right? Because not always about the other person...

Zach Arend: Yeah that right there in our modern world, that would be like, well, that's sensitive. Like, I wouldn't want to blame them, like telling them that it's their fault because that's how we hear it. And that's not how you and I hear but there's a, it's subtle, it's subtle. It's just like, well, what part, what role did you play?

Like, as soon as we leave responsibility, we put ourselves a victim position. We just do. And that's where all the health crisis we're not in touch. And so that's what I'm hearing you say, is like getting back to like my talk, saddle your own horse. Like it's just about like, well, nobody's coming.

You get to choose your relationship with whatever's occurring in the world with this person, knowing that it's a two way street always. And yeah. And the,

Track 1: Absolutely. 

Zach Arend: I'm going to be honest. One of the hardest things I've done as parent. And I, some of you that have been long and you're probably listening here like, "Oh, just wait a sec.

It's going to get worse." Or "that's it?!" You know, but it was a big deal. We had to take away well, Roblox and YouTube. So during the pandemic, yep, we got the screens going and you know what, we established some bad habits where the kids would be on their screens for way too long, YouTube, Roblox, and it was becoming an issue.

And one of my daughters, you know, just kind of got a little... started spending some money on Roblox that we didn't know about. And it wasn't cool with us. It wasn't a good thing. And it was well, it wasn't about punishing her this, it was like, it was a wake up call for my wife and I like, "Whoa, we've been tolerating some behaviors in our own home." But every time we see it, there's that, like, in our guts, like, "I don't like, I don't know. I don't think that's probably what we should be allowing our kids spend so much time and energy on," but we do it because it's convenient, we're busy. And well, this was a big enough wake up call. That it was like, "something's got to change."

And I feel like I've been a parent for 11 years, but I became a parent, like just three months ago, like I actually felt like because I took something away from one of my daughters that it was her favorite thing to do. She had friends there and it was like her little virtual community and I removed it from our like, we removed it.

I like Mr. Dad removed it. Like we collectively, my wife and I were like, we're removing it. Like, it's, this isn't, you're not grounded. It's that it's no more. It's not going to be in this house. We'll use iPads for travel, like in the car or airplanes. Otherwise they stay in the closet. And it was something that my wife and I were like, "okay, well, if we say that we've got to be willing to back it up because it's going to be very inconvenient for us."

Being a parent is very inconvenient, like I'm... like, a great parent means inconvenience. But, my daughter, like, I know she doesn't hate me, but like, I also knew it would just ruin, like she would not, and she didn't speak to me for like three weeks. Like still to this day, only good nights will she say "good night" back to me. And she will not say "I love you" back. She just won't. Just like, whatever. You know, there's just a little bit of an attitude that I just allow because I'm, but so I'm talking a lot, but I just... the number one thing that I struggled with was like, I want so bad for my daughter to love and like me.

And I want to be there, you know, and right now she doesn't. And, but I also have enough instinct to know, well, deeper down she does. And I'm finally starting to see, "Oh my God, I'm starting to earn respect from my daughter because of what I did three months ago." But I couldn't see it. And I didn't see it for like a month.

It was like, and so I just wanted to share that because I want you to give me your perspective there because this has been hard for us. And I'm learning... I'm just going to be quiet. I have so much more I could say, cause this has been so front of mind for us and our family. I want to be a great dad to my daughter, but

Deanna Simonson: Yeah.

Zach Arend: I'm realizing I can't do that and have like me at the same time. Yeah.

Deanna Simonson: Yeah. You know what? That's what, it's so amazing. I actually got the chills when you said that, Zach, because that is where the respect comes from for our kids and that relationship is built, is when we do the hard things. Like 

being a parent is so inconvenient because we have to stop. We have to miss out on things.

Like over the years, to teach our kids that we won't tolerate certain behaviors or we don't tolerate things in our home, mitchell and I, we've had to stay home with a kid. We've had to, you know, let them learn hard lessons. But it's when we love them and show them that we love them, alongside with setting those firm boundaries and limits and sticking to them, that's where the relationship is formed.

And that's where the respect is earned. Like just the other night we were having, we were talking with our teenagers on the couch. We're up late, too late past my bedtime. So get ready for that. Teenagers when they want to talk, right? It's never at an early convenient time. But one thing always makes me laugh is we asked them, like when they're talking about some of their friends and the challenges they're having, like, "what do you think the problem is?"

And my second oldest was like, "Oh, their parents are way too strict." And it makes me laugh because I'm like, that's what kids say when they don't have a relationship with their parents, is that their parents are strict. But I can set the same boundaries and limits and I have a relationship with my child , and they don't look at it as a strict, like I have, we have boundaries, we have limits, we have rules, family rules.

But when you have that relationship with your child, they don't feel that, they feel that love and respect.

Zach Arend: They do. Love. It's like this. I don't know. I did either. I'm thinking of this moment where you said earlier about like, don't let them stay in the feelings too long. Well, this conversation with one of my daughters, like we were just like wallowing and like how terrible life is and how I took away her dream, her favorite thing in the world.

And how could you do that? And I'm just like, there is nothing I can say to that other than "it's understandable," you have, yeah, it makes sense that you're mad because yeah, because I,

Deanna Simonson: Yeah.

Zach Arend: it just continued and there was a moment in the conversation. Well, I'll just be honest. Like I, I think I even cussed to my little girl.

But I'm like, I think I said, like, here's the thing. But it was the most, like, I was speaking to her in a way that I see her and love her, like, "that's not true. And you know," it, you, and I just like. And you can choose like you're so much better than this in just I don't know what I said.

It was such in the moment and just came out of me and it was very intense and she got really quiet. She didn't have that look of like intimidation like I was just bowling over her. I saw this like tinge of like, it was almost like her eyes sparkled a little bit. Oh, look who just showed up. Like dad, just dad's home, like dad just showed up and I've seen those moments more and more.

And I've been so afraid to go there because I think I don't want to. That's right. I don't want to hurt

Deanna Simonson: them. The feelings. No, that's what they want. Like, you know what you are showing your girls, what kind of man they want to be with when they get older. One that's fighting them. That won't let them like, that's a female energy. They're always trying to push on the masculine to be like, "Hey, step up and be my man."

It's the same thing with like a husband wife relationship, you know, like that's how it makes them feel loved. And especially girls, they use big feelings. They use, you know, like these whiny or they're going to not going to talk to you or, you know, all those things. And that's what I tell my husband. I said, this is completely normal.

It's how you're responding is what's going to get them to know that you love and cherish and respect them. And it's that strength, but that's the strength of love,

 right, is what they, especially the girls need. The boys need it too. They need a masculine man to, you know, teach them how to be a man. But so much of this is how we're treating our girls and our boys, even as a mother to my sons is what we will tolerate, but when it, that, that strength can come with love. But it's all comes back to the relationship.

If you don't have a relationship with your child,

Zach Arend: That's probably the hardest, that's hard to have in a relationship because now we have this situation where "I'm not really talking to 

Track 1: Yeah. 

Zach Arend: dad" and "I'm not a fan of dad." And there's moments though. It's like, we forget that. It's like a moment like, "oh, I forgot I'm mad at dad," you know, it's normal. But

Deanna Simonson: Yeah.

Zach Arend: We're in a period where it's like, I'm looking.

So one of my daughters is so easy to engage with. Like we're doing musical theater and it's just so easy to like come alongside her and join her and support her. And it's just like, you know, relationship happens as a result. My other daughter, it's a little like harder because maybe in the past, more into video games and we're reading, just reading books.

And so we'll go to Barnes and Noble and read together, or we went to the library this weekend. And so there's. I'm starting to see it. I want to ask, I want to move into something else, actually. Does parents have a role in pushing their kids?

Deanna Simonson: Sure.

Zach Arend: So for example, I see my daughter, she loves to swim, and our neighborhood has a swim team.

And she's also telling me, "dad, I don't have any friends." I don't know. You know, I'm, "I miss my friends back home, my old school." And I know as dad, I'm like, swim team on the other side of all that will be, my gut's telling me good things will be and you'll think, you know, you don't have to thank me later, but I think it's what you need.

But it's like I'm really having push her like really it's, and then it's like creating a whole new, like, "Oh God, now dad's making me do swim team. I hate dad. And now I'm mad at dad again." And it's like, how do I, what do you, have you had any experience there? Like, like, where's that balance of pushing and just kind of letting kids find their own way?

Cause I, I have a hard time with that one.

Deanna Simonson: Sure.

So, I would say, I always say when you're pushing so hard it's affecting your relationship, then you're pushing too hard. Right? So, affecting the relationship meaning like, it's always "dad's the mean guy, dad's the mean guy," right? So, like, right away thought of like, with how old is she?

Zach Arend: Yeah.

Deanna Simonson: So you're dealing with all sorts of fun emotions and all those things, too. But, like, when did it not become fun anymore? When did Dad become the bad guy in the situation? Was it right after she started? Was it, you know, a few weeks after? What is correlate, you know, what is correlation with it? But absolutely, like, I always give, but I tell my kids, I said, "Okay, I want you to tell me what you want to do, otherwise I'm going to tell you what you want to do."

And it's like, I've seen, like, my oldest, right? He's like, He's always been in business and different things like that. But like pushing him, "okay, I want you to go talk to five people this week, right? You get to choose the people, but you got to go talk to five people." My second, he was into mechanics and like, he loved, he was ripping everything apart from the time he was young.

Right. And he hated it at times. Like, he said, "I'm not going to work. I'm just going to blow the dumb, You know, four wheeler up. I'm not gonna, you know, go to fix it." And I was like, "okay, it's either that or you can read books," which he hated books. Right. So like it pushed him in that direction. Cause I could see that, but it wasn't like, like I wanted him to see.

And then we'd have conversations like, where's the resistance coming from? Cause I would say a lot of times, like with your daughter, if there's something else going on and you're not seeing that or hearing that from her, like that she's trying to tell you something else and you're not hearing that you're so focused on nope you're a great swimmer you're a great swimmer because she could be a great swimmer and absolutely love it, but right now it sounds like she's focused on something about you being the bad guy not the actual swimming itself and I think that's what you need to figure out, you know. They always say the surface problem and then there's the real problem underneath and so we can't sometimes we as parents that would be get too like focused in like overbearing about one thing.

They're going to lose their love for something they could have absolutely loved and fallen in love with, you know, and then having that conversation and find like, okay, what is it? What is it? Why is this resistance here? And sometimes the kids you'll ask them, they're like, "I don't know. I just," you and so we just sit there and explore the conversation.

Like what can I do better as a, what can I do better as a mom or a dad to help you with this rather than making it not fun? Cause it's not fun for me right now. It's not fun for you right now. Like what can we do differently? And sometimes that honestly, like with my girls, like just by saying that I want to be a better parent and tell them that I'm sorry if I've been too harsh or whatever, it like totally melts it.

And then they can just go on and have fun with it. But right now you're the bad guy. So taking away any fun she can be having.

Zach Arend: Yeah. And my gut's telling me and everything I've, when I do ask her, it's going back the whole Roblox you took away. And I, you know, and yeah, that what I'm taking away from this conversation, again, I said it was going to be selfish, I was going to ask you selfish questions, is just the quality time, the time with her and just. And that's been this weekend. My wife went out of town doing a business trip. And so I just had the girls and my daughter, the one we've been talking about, asking me if we could go shopping and I'm like, yeah. And we had, we went shopping. They each had a changing room and like, and it was just, it was the funnest thing.

And, my big takeaway is I got to create more of those moments. Cause in a way it's like, that's earning me, it's like, balancing out tough dad, which I need. I like you're going to get both. Like I have to give both because I can't give one without other. Otherwise that's what I'm learning is it's a "both and" like, it's like this, and I think maybe the older generation of parents didn't do a great job with the "both and," we just slid more towards the "rub some dirt on it. I don't care. Stop crying." And, you know, the love didn't get expressed. Now it's like this extreme love, extreme sensitivity. And it's like this dance. It's like, we're doing both. Like it's constantly a dance. Is that, am I, is that true?

Deanna Simonson: Absolutely. I agree with you. I agree with you a hundred percent. Like that's, I think that's where a lot of us came from is because we all have this childhood trauma, right? Like that, that we weren't able to express our feelings. Hey, I'm the first one to say that I have spent tens of thousands of dollars on healing what I didn't understand.

I couldn't express any emotion. You know, and so like I had a conversation the other day with my oldest. He's like, "mom, you're so like, like you're different. Like the way you have..." I said, "you know what? We all have to grow up," right? Like we all have to, like, I'm growing up as your girl, like I'm maturing, I'm learning.

I said, and so he's like, "Oh, I don't care." I was like, "Oh, get your butt over here. 'I don't care' isn't okay. Like it actually hurts." It sucks. It's not fun. You know, like let's, so we can release this emotion, right? But yeah, absolutely. We need to reel things back. And that's, I was going to tell you with your daughter, be like, you know what?

Like face the beast. How often do you say that? Okay. "I know you're pissed off about me with this Roblox thing. I love you to death. It's not coming back. Let's go shopping." You know what I mean? Like, kick it in the bud like it is, like, okay, it's kind of, it was, you know, like "it was kind of cute," whatever, or like, "I understand it pissed you off, there's things in life pissed me off, but we have to get over it and move on."

Right? So let's go shopping, go do something fun.

Zach Arend: That's what it's been. That's what this weekend has been like. It's like, and yeah. And I'm also becoming more and more aware of like, where I'm needing her to like like there's just kind of this, I don't know, like this inner child of me, that's like, "Oh, I want you to like me." And "Oh, you don't like me right now."

And I think that's us as human beings, we go in the workplace, we go out into life and we're so worried about what other people think, we change our behavior so that we are accepted and liked by others. And I think that's hurting us more than helping, especially as parents. That's my experience recently. Yeah.

Deanna Simonson: Kids are so manipulative and I don't even want to say that they're that way at a cognitive conscious level, but they will poke holes in your parenting faster than anyone, you know? And that's why we have to be so careful with the whole friends thing. Like. I mean, my kids want to hang out with me. I'm not their friends.

I'm their parent, right? The friendship when you need no longer need a parent then, when they're an adult, right? But yeah, I'll go hang out with my kids. I'll go, you know, we do stuff together. I'm their parent, right? Ultimately I'm the one that needs to set the boundaries, set the standards and not put up with their crap. But I also tell parents like nothing's wrong with your kid. It's their job to push against you. It's their job.

So if you can look at it from that perspective and when they're coming at you, like when you get over, you're like, Oh my, you know, you want to backlash okay, come on, bring on. Like I, got this, right? Like, I love you. You can try all the crap you want, but I'm not going to put up with it. And the more you stand with that stance, but love them to death, it's going to, it's going to go away. 

Zach Arend: Yeah. 

Deanna Simonson: You know. But it's a storm. But that storm comes back every time not nurturing the relationship, you're not spending time with them. And I would say that's for every relationship, right? That, that you want is like, if you're not, if you're not treating your spouse right, right?

There's like, even my hubby and I, we had, he was gone for a week, got a business trip the other week and he comes home and you know, all the kids, all the things, and all of a sudden I find myself getting a little snippy with him. And he's like, "what's going on?" I'm like, "hello. What about me? Right? Like I want time with you too."

You know, so but just to recognize that like, I'm not crazy. The kids aren't crazy like this. This is human nature how we are as humans That doesn't mean, that doesn't, we need, like, make emotions great again. That's what I'm all about because we need to express emotions. We need to feel emotions. And what we're doing to our society, medicating 

Zach Arend: Well, I heard something interesting about emotions. Like, how many, there's like a certain number of emotions. I don't know the exact number. Let's say six to nine core. Do you know the answer to this question? I think that,

Deanna Simonson: Well, they say people experience You know, like, usually on one hand, like, the

Zach Arend: yeah, there's like, I'm picturing this wheel and there's like, that there's like, let's just hypothetically, there's nine core emotions. And then underneath that, there's like little subtle nuances of that emotion. But what I heard that was really fascinating, it's of all the human emotions, only like two of them are actually quote unquote positive emotions. Everything else, most of us would label as negative emotions. And so in that, and what I'm learning is these emotions come up in us, and then we make them mean something. Which is complete, a made up thing. We make them mean something and then we go try to create, we go, we try to solve what we believe it means is wrong. And it's like complete insanity. Like we're, we are the one creating the problem that we're trying to solve. Like, it's like, or you could just be like, "Oh I'm noticing sadness coming up." And it doesn't have to like, what's wrong, where, why, like, maybe it's just like, "well, sadness, huh?

Cool. Okay." And then just, I think there's something to learn from your emotions, but it's like listening with a, just a level of curiosity and no judgment, like not judgment. It's not like, "oh, this doesn't mean it's good or bad. It's just, oh, sadness. What might this be trying to tell me?" Like what, if this is some good information here.

Yeah. Okay.

Deanna Simonson: Same thing your kids' emotions. Get curious about it. Get curious. And that's why I tell parents instead of getting pissed off or angry, get curious, and then get curious about why it's making you so upset. Were you not validated as a child? Were you not listened to as a child? And that's the first thing sometimes I ask parents when they're dealing with their child.

I'm like, I said, "when you stop and think about it, what does your heart say?" Cause that's another thing is so often we get stuck in our head, trying to analyze the situation. And we completely disregard or like we don't even go there. We don't even go to our heart because we're so stuck in our heads. Like what is it that this kid needs?

Like we were actually just up till 1am Saturday with two of our boys. We were trying to solve this problem and all of a sudden it hit me. I'm like, I told Mitchell, I'm like, "we're thinking with our adult brains. Like they're still so immature. We're trying to fix this. All they want is for us to see what they see wrong and agree with them and say, "yeah, we need to work on this" and move on." Like we were trying to make it into this big, complicated thing. And I'm like, no, at the end of the day, it's not what they were seeing in a situation that they were actually bringing to us that made them feel uncomfortable. We're like trying to figure it out.

And like, we're thinking about it and like discussing it. I'm like, no, it's actually really simple. We as adults, we complicate it. We make it into a bigger problem. Let's see as it is, not worse than it is.

Zach Arend: So let's bring this down to the ground. Like we're all aware, all of us listening, we're aware of the world we live in and we all are busy and we all are, you know, kids are in activities and there's school and there's jobs and some of us are entrepreneurs and like, it's just like, a pile of stuff that we feel like we're responsible for. If there was three things, like three fundamental things that we need to focus on or refocus on to kind of come back to being great parents to our kids in a way that gives them what they truly need. Like what, what are a few practical things that we need to kind of check in and on and see, like, make sure those stay in our life and our routine and our day to day, something that's tangible that we can leave with?

Deanna Simonson: Sure. So I guess the first thing that comes to mind, like I tell parents when they come to me again, it's like, I would say a great marriage makes great parents. If your marriage is struggling or your relationship is struggling with your partner or whoever, like, figure that out first. There's more behaviors caused by the tension between the parents, even if they're divorced.

Like if there's that tension and disrespect and whatever going on with the marriage or the partnership, or even between the mom and dad after the divorce, it creates so many problems. Number two, love your kids. Like parents get so stuck in their head, trying to discipline their kids. They forget to love them and realize that, you know what?

They're not any better. Like we somehow expect them to behave better than we do. Right. And I say, that's one of the biggest phenomenons of parenting is expecting our children to act better than we do. We can't do that. And number three, I guess it goes along with that one is own your own crap. Like when you mess up, you like have a temper that offends your child or you can visibly see, right.

Like, or you were wrong. You accuse them or you know, whatever happened like go there apologize and say "that was more about me than it was about you." And that's the biggest thing you can do to save your relationship with your child, or your spouse, or your parent, or your workmate, your employee, you know, whatever it is, let's own our own crap. Like so many times we as adults we think that "Oh, you know, whatever. It just is what it is." We try to blow it off for our own pride or whatever else it is. But that's what also takes our kids and every relationship out of that fight or flight. As soon as we can apologize, even if it wasn't our intention, and sometimes that's what I have to tell my kids, that wasn't my intention to hurt you or to say those things or to respond that way, but to apologize for it. And that's what gets them to forgive you. And then they have to look at themselves and their own behavior as to how they can be better and make things better themselves.

Zach Arend: Deanna, thanks so much for joining me in this conversation. Yeah, you're, you are our family. You and Mitch are like on speed dial. I don't know if you know that, but you're going to be, just your perspectives. As I've been kind of, know, being a dad and the things you've shared with me just was like, okay, it's just been affirming.

Like, we're on the right path. And coming out of this, it's, I'm seeing that you're everything you were saying, like, several months ago, when we were together in Youngstown, it's like, yep, that's, it's coming true. And that I'm learning that the love actually is acceptance, total acceptance. Like, I was trying so hard to love my daughter, but what I was really trying to do is keep her in good standing where she liked me and where she would say, "I love you." Now I'm realizing like, "oh, I'm the adult here. I'm going to know some things and see some things that she's not going to love me in the moment for but that's real love." And that's the tough work of being a parent and that's what love is. As I'm experiencing. So thank you for everything you've helped us and our families.

And yeah, thanks for coming on the show. Any final things like if people want to learn more, just where should we send them? Anything you would love to ask of the audience?

Deanna Simonson: Yeah. You can go to my website. Pivotal Step is actually my company. It's www.pivotal-step.com with a dash between pivotal and step. Yeah. There you have ways to contact me. I'm linked to my YouTube. The TEDx talk is there. But yeah, Zach, you're amazing. Thanks so much for letting me be here and you're being an awesome parent. It's been fun getting to know you.