A special (northern hemisphere) summer one! An uncut, raw, spontaneous episode where Perrine, Tristan and Gaël discuss about podcasting in Sustainability, in Tech and in general! 🎙️

Enjoy it at the beach, in the moutains or in front of a warm fire if this is winter time for you 🎧

📧 You can also send us an email at [email protected] to share your feedback and suggest future guests or topics.   

[00:00:08] Gaël: Hello, everyone, welcome to and because this is a very special summer episode that we're gonna have both with and two great podcasters in French. But of course they speak beautiful English and you know what? We're not gonna talk that much about green it and digital sustainability in this episode because I really wanted to gather people to share what it is to try to be a voice in the sustainability field and avoid being someone creating content. And obviously, because I'm a big fan of podcast, I asked two fellow podcasts to join. But, hey, that's kind of the same questions that would apply to anyone trying to launch a newsletter, a youtube channel or whatever. So why did I invite and, and actually Richard Anna as well, but he couldn't join. Well, because these folks, they're kind of my heroes with Jerry mcgovern and Jerry, um like a Gillian, the, the other people when I discovered the podcast who convinced me that, hey, there is something to be done except that for me it was in English and it was with a very clear international focus trying to connect people across different countries, across different um line of businesses, but still people that I admire a lot. And there has been really role models in my very young journey as a podcaster and this is a summer episode, so I won't edit anything. It's just be, you know, um cool conversation as we were near a pool uh with of course, rainwater and not water drainer from the ground. And well, to be honest, um we are not super, super, super sure about what we want to say. So it's gonna be very spontaneous, but we wanted to share. Yeah, what it is to create content as a volunteer. And because all the podcasts are nonprofit podcast and you know, it might inspire some of you because we need more people in this field. So welcome. Welcome, Trista.

[00:03:05] Perrine: Thank you. Thank

[00:03:06] Gaël: you. So maybe just starting uh how do you feel today?

[00:03:14] Perrine: I feel a bit sleepy,

[00:03:17] Tristan: to be honest, iii I didn't uh my, my night was pretty terrible. But, uh, other than that, um, well, it makes me usually, you know, swear a lot and, and say stupid things. So, maybe, maybe it's gonna make this, uh, a more enjoyable episode. Uh, who knows?

[00:03:36] Gaël: Uh, I do think so. My night was not super cool as well, but for good reason, I must admit that I partied quite a bit yesterday. And what you barry? Now do you feel today?

[00:03:49] Perrine: I feel a bit sleepy as well, but also very happy to hear that I can be a hero to someone. So thank you, Gaël me.

[00:04:00] Tristan: The intro was indeed very flattering a bit of, but no, that's nice. I'll think it

[00:04:07] Gaël: but pure, pure truth to be honest, pure truth. Um And, and so, yeah, maybe we could start with we all slippy. So this is kind of the French podcast, a Sleepy Gang today. But uh we're still, well, we already energized when we are behind the ma microphone. So um maybe Perria, do you want to start? Why did you start your podcast? Why did you decide to create content uh in the, in the sustainability area?

[00:04:37] Perrine: That's a good question and a good story to tell. Um Actually in 2019, um I started to question myself about my, about my job. So I work um in ecommerce. Uh I uh I work in digital marketing more specifically. Um And I used to work for companies that sell goods online uh basically. And uh in 2019, I started to question so about my job about my life. And I joined uh green it, I started volunteering for Green it in 2019. And at that time, I discovered everything about digital impacts. And I remember telling myself that consuming digital as we did at that time, and I think nothing changed, could make it disappear in three or four decades. So I remember thinking about how my job would disappear and how the next generations would have to live without technologies. And I also remembered that general public did not know anything about that. They totally ignored the figures, the impact they, they did live in this digital world that we've been enforced to live in without wondering about the risks, the impact. So I wanted to start um communicating about um digital sustainability and digital impact uh with the key concept for those people actually starting with my friends and my family because they didn't know anything about uh digital impact. I wanted to popularize uh the, the concept, the digital impact. Um I, I think I, I have to say that uh we're still far from uh the initial objective about popularizing uh the concept of digital sustainability. I, I think it's still work in progress. Uh But I have to say that the audience we have on the mainly comes from people knowing already about the problems. So that's a, that's a challenge we need to to, to, to take,

[00:07:02] Gaël: yeah,

[00:07:03] Perrine: exactly. So that's the story behind the responsibility. And I also wanted to create a media, um, that was not, um, a newsletter or a blog because, uh at that time there were a lot of, um, medias like that. Um, and I wanted to have something, um, it was not, I wouldn't call it modern because at that time in 2021 when I, when I started, started the podcast, um, there were already a lot of podcasts. Um, but I think that, but the podcast and the audio is a good, um, uh, format. What's the word in English? Um, it, it's, it's kind of light um, in terms of weight, you know, and the weight of format and it's, it's good because when you're, um, I don't know in your car or, uh, cycling thinking

[00:08:09] Tristan: about you. No, no, you're not allowed to listen to a podcast with headphones. No, you're not, you don't know in

[00:08:17] Gaël: other countries, but at least in France for sure.

[00:08:19] Perrine: That's sad. But I'm pretty sure that people still do that. So

[00:08:23] Tristan: many people do it. II, I just don't,

[00:08:28] Perrine: that's, that's the

[00:08:29] Gaël: main grief, not abiding by the law. That will be extremely rare.

[00:08:35] Tristan: Maybe I'm the only, I'm the only one but III I do not use headphones on my bicycle and which sucks. It's the main, it's the biggest grief I have against bicycle is that it's not good for my, uh, you know, for podcasting, for listening to podcast.

[00:08:56] Perrine: So, yeah, that's the story behind the and um and yeah, that's it. So at that time, it was about popularizing the, the concept. Um It's still about that. Uh So this is why we still introduce um like positive initiatives against the impacts that digital can have uh environmental impacts, social impacts, also health impacts, ethical impacts um and making making it kind of positive, being enthusiastic about uh uh being sustainable. That's the, that's the objective.

[00:09:41] Gaël: Yeah, pretty cool. And what about you? Because I, I recon the green octet or green bite if you want to use the, the, the English word which is most commonly used um has been around for quite a lot of time now.

[00:09:57] Tristan: Yeah, it's, I think it took me like um it's, it's almost five years now when uh Nicola was a Minister for the Environment and France has resigned live on radio in the morning in, in August uh 2018. Uh and it's, it stroke me. Actually, I started writing on my blog uh in, well, just 20 years ago uh about uh sustainability uh uh oil, um carbon dioxide and, and, and, and climate change. Um So II I was, you know, writing on these issues for, for a while, but I gave up because it looked like nobody was listening. Um And suddenly, you know, uh that's the minister has quit live on radio, just hit me uh that I needed to do something. Um, being a, a computer engineer, an entrepreneur. Uh I realized that well, we had to do and I saw, well, I thought, well, what, what can I do? So, I started with, you know, so small daily gestures, like trying to ride a bicycle, not buying a new motorcycle and, and eating less meat and stuff like that. And I stopped flying. Um, but I, I thought that I may have a bigger impact. Um, and also I wanted to do something in my day job, you know, just, uh, not, not as a hobby. I wanted to spend my, my whole life doing something meaningful and that implied uh fighting climate change. So, uh but, but the issue is, you know, I'm a computer scientist and, and tech entrepreneur. So, uh what can I do? Um, and I thought really hard and, um, I used the uh ec I uh method. I don't know if you guys are familiar with it. I encourage you to look it up on the internet. Um, and I realized that what I can do is, is tell story and explain stuff uh to people. This is something I'm good at. And so a friend of mine told me, well, you know, if you wanna be considered as one of the specialists in the field of uh it sustainability, what you need to do is write a book and I, I had written a couple of books, one myself. One directed as a uh you know, book written by several people and such. And I didn't feel like I like writing another book. Um because I had another project regarding a book, I wanted to write fiction, uh will, will, will explain it later. But I had a, I had a plan to write some fiction about climate change. Um And, and so writing another book which were more like an essay on uh on climate change and, and it, you know, green it and such didn't uh make me excited and it happens that I had some experience with uh podcasting in the past. Um working uh on the, on the podcast with the French Daily. Uh the uh the, the podcast was called Cast, uh 56 Cast if you will as a, as a uh as a reference to uh to the speed of uh dial-up modems back in the days. Um And so, um I thought, yeah, maybe I could, I could do my own podcast. And so II, I chatted with a couple of friends that were uh journalist and doing podcast and radio and such and then told me how easy it was. Uh And so I, I started uh considering it and then I met someone on Twitter, uh who was uh working in the field uh as a sound engineer and he told me he would help me. Um And so I started, uh and I was already listening to Hanna's uh, uh, podcast, which I liked quite a lot. And I wanted to do something, uh, different, uh, maybe shorter, uh, because I realized that some, you know, some people need, uh, like 30 minutes episodes and, um, and I want to also make it positive and, and funny because the, the, the topic is, uh, sometimes, uh, or pretty much, uh, often, uh, quite heavy. And so, well, I, uh, I decided to make it fun because I think I'm a, I'm a, I'm a fun guy. Uh, I, I say funny things all the time. Um, and usually I try to hide that parts that side of my personality, uh, because no, it doesn't sound too professional but I decided this time to embrace it. Like the people need, need fun, need, need cool and fun stuff to listen to cool material, fun material and discuss, uh, what's a heavy topic, uh, which is, uh, climate change. Um, and so, well that there was, there was my mix, uh, some, something short and, and, and fun. Um, uh, also, uh, with a decent sound, uh, because, uh, uh, my friend was, you know, professional doing really good stuff and, uh, and that was it. So I started working on a list of, uh, people to, uh, to interview and also the same list of questions that hasn't changed in, in like three years, uh, always the same question to, uh, to different people. And, um, and here you go, you have the, the story of, uh, look and then three years after it's still, still going. So, uh, and I hope it's gonna go for 1/4 season again. What about you? Uh, again? So, uh, you, you have my version of it. How did you get started?

[00:16:37] Gaël: Well, um, fun fact, you know, Trista, I love you and I admire you a lot, but there is one time I actually hated you a bit. It is when I had to throw in my bin, an article that I've been writing for a while about how I used I guy to in my life because basically you wrote it for me.

[00:17:01] Tristan: I'm sorry about that. Well, you know, you, you should, you should we use the article, say, say your own words, go, go for

[00:17:09] Gaël: it. But that's honestly I read the article and I said, holy cow, this is exactly what happens. What happened is I finished for, for many different reasons because I, I didn't want to, to last in this position for, for ages. And because I also relocated myself in and because I was a bit fed up with management, I've been managing teams for like 20 years. Um I want to do things a bit differently, but mostly because I had this kind of urgency that something needed to be done when it comes to uh uh the environment and climate change. So two years ago, I quit my um my job at a group which is absolutely not known by anyone but uh, listeners in Germany will know what IMT is or I Web in Belgium or in France. So that's the kind of company I was working in. And, um, and I think, OK, what I, what I, what I need to do and I use the ki guy as you say it, like, you know what it is. What do I know? Well, I'm a tech generalist so I can speak to pretty much everyone in the tech industry. I'm not an expert in anything. So I will not write a book in Python or a I or whatever, but I'm very comfortable talking with any data scientist or architect. And um it was OK, I'm good at this. Um What do the word need? Obviously something taking care about the environment in, in, in, in climate change. Can I make some money in it? Maybe? I don't know. I'm still figuring it out, but I believe so. And is it something that I like? And yes, at last, this is really something that I like and it, and I actually thought I would take a six months if not 12 months break, you know, to read books, to find my way, et cetera. And using the IKI guy after one month, was it boomed in done? Um I wanted to investigate the sustainability uh field and more specifically the it sustainably field as you did. So that was it I guy power. And that so far I, I, I've, I, I've been happy with this decision every day since I've started being a freelancer on, on, on it. Sustainability. And then, and that's interesting what you've mentioned. Um Both of you about finding a medium that, you know, that resonates and, and, and I don't know, like you said, it is embracing who you are and, and the truth is that I love talking to people and connecting people. I, I used to love when I had like an engineer in, in a, in a product designer, hating each other, putting them in the same room and at the end, you know, making, making sure that they could, they could talk together. And of course, I enjoyed so much working in an international company because you connect different cultures, etcetera. So I said, mm yeah, I would love a medium where I could connect people. So it cannot be only me, I cannot really start, you know, a newsletter or, or blogging because it will be mostly me about me. And that's not what I enjoy most talking about. Even if I, sometimes I can have maybe decent I DS. But that was not really the point. And then, and it was OK. I, I'd love to make it international. And obviously because in French, in France, sorry, we, we, we were already blessed to have three high quality podcasts or two about the three that we already mentioned today. Um Let, let, let's go more in English, you know, and that, that's better for international connection and boom was um uh was born. So that, that's kind of the idea. Yeah,

[00:20:46] Tristan: I, I like that you uh that you went for English um because I've, I've been considering it, it just, I'm, I'm lacking the time to do it. Um But I think uh uh when we're totally off script right now, so I hope you don't mind. But really, I think the, I think the English speaking world needs more uh of uh such content. Um I, I do have the feeling that we're lucky in France to be ahead of the game ahead of the pack. Uh You know, in this conversation about uh climate change uh compared to other countries and especially uh the US and, and UK and, and basically most other countries to be

[00:21:38] Gaël: honest, but you're right. But you know, and, and that sounds super pretentious. Uh If you've got like three French people saying so, but, but the truth is everyone, I'm talking with my German friends, my Singaporean friends, my UKIP friends, uh Canada American, they all tell us the same for the moment and I hope that will not be the case in one or two years because that, that's a bad signal for the planet. But for the moment, the country where it sustainability has been investigated, the the most still remain French, which is not a good news. There is only like 70 billion million, sorry, 70 million people in France. So obviously, we don't want only one country to consider something as big as the digital industry and its impact. Um But for the moment, that's still the case. Uh things are, I mean, many countries are catching up like very great stuff uh are happening in Scandinavia and Netherlands, Germany UK is quite active as well. It's way more difficult in the, in the, in the US because of a very pro technology bias, I would say. But anyway, uh fun fact to answer your question. You know, when I started to research, who would be my competitors slash cooperators because I don't really believe in that there is a competition between podcast when you know, or, or, or, or impact media when you aim to do the same stuff which is raising awareness on climate change and environmental impact. Um I Googled and I couldn't believe that if you Google something like Bitcoin podcast or Blockchain podcast, you will get something like one or 2000 results only in Alaia. Uh If you do the same, even for even a hyper scale as Edible US, et cetera, you've got tons of podcasts tech for good or green tech. You've got dozens of podcasts. And when I really wanted to find podcast focusing on the environmental impact in now to green rather than uh green, I could barely find any environment viable which is a podcast II, I love from the Green Software foundation was not created yet and they were only, this is HED, this is Human centered design by the two Jeri and more specifically the, the the subtract uh worldwide waste. And that was pretty much it. So, can you imagine that there is between 1.2 and 1.5 billion people speaking fluently English in the word, this is the by Francois and we're talking about less than full podcast worldwide, speaking about this. So that was kind of a no brainer for me when I realized it's

[00:24:17] Perrine: a good story.

[00:24:20] Gaël: Um You mentioned like something that yeah is kind of music to my ear like today. Is it a true pain point for you to reach an audience which is not made of people already convinced. How, how, how did you manage? What are and actually what are the other pain points that you face as a podcaster?

[00:24:40] Perrine: I wouldn't speak about pain because, you know, the responsibility is like a fun activity for me. Um But yeah, truth is um when I started the podcast, I thought that um people would be super interested in, in, in, in that uh topic because everybody is concerned about um digital. I mean, everybody use uh smartphones and uh and devices like every day. Um But the truth is, I'm, I don't know if they don't want to see the truth. Um I don't know if they want to hear about things like that. But yeah, um the audience that I wanted to reach at the beginning is actually not the audience that I have. Um because the audience that um we have on the is mainly a notions from um from our world and by our world, I mean, people from or people from the uh um digital

[00:26:00] Tristan: class peers, basically people who, who are we fighting against climate change, like just like us, people who are already convinced of the emergency of doing something.

[00:26:15] Perrine: So in a way, I wouldn't speak about pain points. Um But yeah, that's, I, I would say that's a challenge. Yes.

[00:26:28] Tristan: II, I, I'd say, well, even I, I agree with you, I would love to um reach out to more people. Um On the other hand, the feedback that I get is that what we do uh is useful. It's, it's coming in support for people who are convinced but are needing energy and stories and, you know, emotional support to those who are convinced, who are fighting on a daily basis and we are feeding them with energy and motivation to keep going. That's uh that's what I hear. Uh Like, like people come to me and ask for a new episode because uh you know, they love this or that person and the story that he or she said, um and, and they want to hear more of it because, because it's useful to them. Um and they need it.

[00:27:37] Perrine: Yeah. That's good to hear that.

[00:27:40] Gaël: Yeah. Like more like a feel good or a feel good content or um tooling content. Like to strengthen your arguments and, and yeah,

[00:27:53] Perrine: I got inspiration as well. Inspiration. Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:27:59] Tristan: And, and it's not me who's inspiring is the people that I pick right? To be honest, iii I,

[00:28:06] Gaël: I, I can say it but you can, but I believe that you are in, in your own way. But that's,

[00:28:13] Perrine: I'll take it.

[00:28:14] Gaël: But you can say it's early in the morning, it's a gift that's better than

[00:28:21] Tristan: a good way to start a day.

[00:28:23] Gaël: Well, you know, uh, full disclosure and maybe some, some of the people listening to it will actually, um, will not identify himself as peer already because I've been trying for the last two months and I will tell you how it goes, um, to go a different way, Trisa, you mentioned, um the sound engineer working for you. So I, I kind of did the same because I suck just too much and I take way too much time when I had to edit and, and sound, edit my podcast. So I tried to learn how to understand it. But after at, at some point, I had to hire someone and, and started to work with Danny, who was very experienced podcast producer. He's based in New York or kind of east coast now. I think he has moved to Phil here anyway. And after a few months working together, I'm like, OK, the audience are, are good, very international, blah, blah, blah. But hey, I don't find, you know, I don't get any exponential growth, blah, blah, blah. Maybe it's the product. Maybe we should do a better intro, maybe we should do this. Maybe we should do that, et cetera, et cetera. She told me something that I've said countless time to product manager and engineers. It's like, stop focusing on the product. You know, the product is good enough. Don't fall in love with your product, but actually no one knows about your podcast. It was like, uh, what, like, come on gale, I mean, it's, it should be listened by thousands, if not dozens of thousands of people. But the problem is at some point you need to sell it, you need some marketing stuff. And I'm like, I'm not a marketing guys and, and I decided actually to post a bit like the continuous announcement of the, of the, the podcast. Like, ah, maybe I should do this. I should do that, et cetera. And, yeah, I'm trying to, yeah, I'm a bit crazy but I'm, I'm trying to, um, for the very first time I will advertise on a newsletter so it will cost me money, but a newsletter. I respect a lot. So, um, so it's ok. And, um, and, uh, and I'm trying to pin more people on linkedin and on social network, you know, really like doing some kind of sales job. I don't know if it will work, but I, I really want to try to go beyond the people and there are many of them who listen to the, the Green Podcast and say, well, that, that, that's good concern. It makes you feel better. It helps me discussing with my colleagues et cetera. I don't know if it will work, but I will try, I will tell you, you know, end of, end of the year, if I run out of Monet or energy to do so.

[00:30:58] Perrine: Yeah, but you know, girl, that's also something that I um I thought about a lot because um when speaking about communication, well, actually that's my job. I'm not like you guys, I'm not um um a tech expert. Um I'm more like a business girl. So that should be my thing, you know, communication. But still when it comes to my, my job, my podcast, uh actually, it's hard. So, and I thought about also the frequency of uh posting um things on social media. Um because I read a lot about um you know, work from um uh great work from um when you don't have something to say, then don't post, don't post anything to shut up. Exactly. Exactly. So I also thought about being sustainable in the way that we communicate on social media and in the way that we communicate about launching a new episode. But obviously that concept has also its own limits. And, um, I think it's good that you're going to test new, new things, like new, uh, advertising, um, things. But, yeah, that, that's also something that's I thought about. Like, should I do this? Uh Should I communicate? Should I create a newsletter? Should I post um, twice a week or twice a month? You know, it's, it's hard to be not to be schizophrenic, you know. Um, and being, um we say in French, you know, I, I'm not sure if there's an expression like that in English. But yeah, being means your principles, we say, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So, yeah, I don't know if you, you had thoughts about this as well for, but that's, that's not easy, I would say,

[00:33:12] Tristan: yeah, I, I agree. I had similar uh questions uh coming to me when um for uh I, I wanted to try something. Um And, and actually the guy who's uh who's my uh s sound engineer is also into video. Um He does video production. And so we decided uh that uh we would do a couple of episodes on video too just to see whether it would attract more people uh or not. Uh seeing me doing the interview because uh uh right now it's only audio and so we, we did video too, but it's, it's not happening on a regular basis enough to see if it really brings a new, a new audience uh or not. But deep down, it's makes it makes me cringe a bit uh doing video because, well, first, I'm not a big fan of youtube uh because of their uh recommendation algorithm and, and such. Um And, and also just because video uh is a lot heavier when it comes to uh comes to bandwidth, it's like it's, it's uh I don't know, is it 100 times bigger or something like that? Um When it comes to, uh, ban wives bandwidth consumption compared to MP3, uh, ad. So, um, and I try, also, I try not to spend time on youtube and watching video. It's, it's just, for me it's mostly a waste of time. So, so that's it. Um, I, I don't know. Iii, I know I should probably do episodes more frequently. Um, but also, you know, for me, look, there, there is a hobby and so I, I do a new episode when I have time to deal with a new episode because when, when work leaves me enough time to make a new episode. So maybe I could take it more seriously and, but it's not a business. It's still a hobby for me.

[00:35:24] Perrine: Yeah. I think it's a hobby for, for the three of us. Right.

[00:35:30] Tristan: May, may hope to make some money out of it in the end. No, I

[00:35:34] Gaël: don't think so. I mean, I've, I will make some, I, I mean, we never get any money in my personal pocket because I think the moment, I mean, even if at some point I managed to, uh, to open a Patreon of Schema or even to get a sponsor that will be fully aligned with all of my values, et cetera, which usually are the people or the company which don't have that much money. So it's, but anyway, um, I think it was very clear that it will be to pay the cost because obviously I put quite a lot of money in the podcast at the moment. That's kind of, you know, why I, when I, when I build people doing consulting or public speaking or, you know, workshops, etcetera, I'm always very transparent that almost half of my time I'm doing nonprofit in volunteering jobs. So it kind of pay the green your bill as well. But even if at some point I manage to monetize the podcast somehow, um I will never want to get a salary on it, et cetera. I'm, I'm too afraid that it will create a bias in the way I interview people, et cetera. But that's a very personal uh stance. Uh But so even, you know, and it might, it might happen, especially if I don't manage to earn enough money just to make a living, I will have to uh to, to cut costs or to ask money for people, you know, to, to be able to still pay my uh my podcast editor and the different tools and a bit of maybe you know, ads or whatever.

[00:37:05] Tristan: Yeah. I, I, the way I would put it actually is, is with our relationship to money and, you know, making money out of it. So I, I don't try money to die at all. Like there is no advertising, nothing. I just pay everything. Um, but that's fine. I just consider it to be an expensive business card. It's, um, it's, it's a way for me to position myself as one of the guy who works on the topic and who's visible, that's it, it makes me visible uh uh on, on basically green it or digital sustainability. That's it. And that, that's enough. Uh I like it business

[00:37:50] Perrine: card. And also for me, um the, the, the real benefits out of the podcast is actually um a great way to meet inspiring people because without that, without, I wouldn't have been able to meet great people that I've interviewed. So that's, that's a good card. Um As you said, it's a, it's a good way to make you visible and that's also a great way to approach people that I, well, myself, I wouldn't have been able to approach.

[00:38:29] Tristan: Indeed. Yes, I, I, like, I, I interviewed the guy who's talking about the economist who was talking about the growth a couple of months ago and that was, that was fine and that was, that was lovely. It was a lot of fun and, and now, uh you know, is, is, is invited to many famous places and that's very cool for him. But I'm, I'm glad that I, I could talk to him and have some time with him and connect with him. So it's, yeah, I agree with you. It's like both a business card and a, and a networking tool.

[00:39:03] Gaël: I, I like the, I use the expression, a golden key. It opens almost every door.

[00:39:10] Perrine: Yes, that's true.

[00:39:12] Gaël: So, that's kind of actually if, if we, if I don't know, let, let, let, let, let's play this little game a bit. Like if you had to give one or two advices to people willing to, you know, create content and obviously we're more into podcasting, but that guess maybe some, some of your advices could apply also to other media. Um What would it be?

[00:39:38] Tristan: Go for, it

[00:39:41] Perrine: just

[00:39:41] Tristan: go ahead just, you know, just

[00:39:43] Gaël: do three words, go for it,

[00:39:46] Tristan: just do it another three words that works too. Um II, I did it 21 years ago because my, my blog is gonna celebrate its 21st anniversary next week. Oh, eventually

[00:39:59] Gaël: you're gonna be able to buy some, drink some alcohol in the US. So

[00:40:04] Tristan: finally, my blog is

[00:40:07] Perrine: age happy birthday.

[00:40:12] Tristan: So, um yeah. And uh it's funny because I still post on my blog 20 years, 21 years after. Um And, and that's funny because at, at, at the beginning, I was like, what, what am I going to say? And I, I think the, the first post was like, uh, I'm starting this thing. I have no idea whether I'm going and, uh, you know, 21 years ago after that, it's still going pretty strong. Um, so go for it and, uh, try and make mistakes and have fun. Uh, it's, uh, it's, it's fun. It's fun. It's useful. Um, so whether you're into writing or, uh, podcasting, uh, or whatever, uh, just, just go for it and learn and try and, and, and fail and get back on your feet and do it again and, and learn and rinse repeat. There you go.

[00:41:13] Perrine: Yeah, nothing better. You said every everything, no, I would say, don't be scared, don't be scared. Go for it. And, uh, I, I would say for me, um, I'm not super, um, self confident. Um, but taking the podcast as a hobby and putting absolutely no pressure on my shoulders actually helped. Um, because I went for it without being scared and, um, and if you

[00:41:43] Tristan: fail, it's not a problem. It's just, it's just a hobby. It's not, nothing

[00:41:47] Perrine: professional. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And you, what would you say? What would be your advice? So, I

[00:41:56] Gaël: might be a bit more philosophical here. Uh So beware, I think it's a question of both. Um um It's a question of gravity in the, in not, not philosophical way, but almost astrophysical way that we need more content to shift the narrative. It, it's a question of gravity. We, we need to create a bigger planet or bigger sources of attraction when it comes to sustainability. And, and today, when you look the, the the sustainability field, there are still not enough voices to counterbalance the incredible noise made by people who basically didn't understand or didn't want to understand the magnitude of the change ahead of us. And I'm not even talking about climate deniers or these kind of assholes. Yes, I still use the first uh rude word. But um so, you know, it's OK to add a voice and, and, and you will bring something specific and you shouldn't be shy to, you know, add your voice, add your media to already existing one. I mean, that, that, that's something that I've learned the hard way because I was really concerned about. They are, they are in French. Uh They are obviously you folks um they are already uh this, this great uh youtube. I don't like it that much, but the, the great youtube channels, et cetera. Shall I add something on top of it? And the truth is, and that's my second concept. Diversity is key. So, so even if you do something for six months and 12 months, that, that's great because you would have added diversity and we did diverse approaches to make a change if there are only one or two big voices, I mean, if they are the greatest people of all, um it will not make it up against all those voices, you know, pushing for business as usual, slightly being green, you know, painted in green. That, that's kind of my stuff. Maybe that was not that philosophical actually. That was more,

[00:44:14] Tristan: I love it. Love it.

[00:44:18] Perrine: Well, you, you actually prove your points, diversity in answers as well. Oh,

[00:44:24] Tristan: yeah.

[00:44:26] Gaël: But it was, uh, it was, it's a cool episode, I think, I think we get, we get, we, we agreed to, to keep it short. So it was for all the listeners, it was really about, you know, under the hood, uh just two podcasters, three podcasters, sorry, because I'm gonna put, count myself in it. I talked a bit in, in this episode as well. So uh discussing about, yeah, why, how and why you should actually join uh join the concert of the voices willing to make a, a greener better word, not even a digital word, but um an entire world. So, yeah, that, that was the idea. So I think you enjoyed the episode and uh maybe a final word.

[00:45:10] Tristan: Well, thank you very much for the invitation. I think it's the first time that I do something uh in English. And it's uh I, I didn't dare doing it. So, and, and I feel actually comfortable doing it. So maybe, maybe you're gonna get some competition in the uh in the English speaking by your French guy uh category.

[00:45:33] Gaël: I don't know. But you're more than welcome, you know, that

[00:45:37] Perrine: diversity,

[00:45:38] Gaël: diversity once

[00:45:39] Perrine: again. No, thank you. Um Well, for me. No, I'm gonna stick to French, to be honest, it was a bit hard for me for my sleepy heads to speak English this morning. So sorry for this very bad accent. But um yeah, again, it was great and it was also a good opportunity to speak to you both guys. Um So yeah, that's a good episode. Thank you.

[00:46:12] Gaël: So now get back to your summer break and sorry about my, all my new Zealand friends, Australian friends and actually all the people living in LA Reign because it's not summer at all. It's winter. So go back to your winter break also and just enjoy life and talk to you soon.

[00:46:30] Perrine: Yeah. Bye

[00:46:31] Tristan: bye bye everyone

[00:46:32] Gaël: and that's it. Thank you for listening to Green. I make sure to subscribe to the mailing list to stay up to date on your episodes. If you enjoyed this one, feel free to share it on social media or with any friends or colleagues who could benefit from it as a nonprofit podcast. We rely on you to spread the word last but not the least. If you know someone who would make a great guest, please send them my way so that we can make our digital word greener one bite at a time.